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this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2024
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Jews around the word are less safe because of Israel when they were promised the opposite. Their faith has been used as a cover for a land grab and they put your holy symbol on a flag they go to war, and worse, under. It's no wonder so many Jews at least in the US are critical of Israel. It probably feels a lot like being a regular Muslim watching groups commit violence with their religious iconography and warped interpretations used to create 'justification'.
Anecdotally, I've never met any Jewish people in the US who didn't have strongly negative opinions of the government/state of Israel.
Some people aren't okay with their holy texts being warped into a cudgel and used to beat down the innocent.
It depends on your particular social circle but 80-85% of Jews are supportive of Israel. Most oppose Netanyahu.
Damn, if that isn't a spot-on description of how I feel about my faith right now.
My parents don't understand why I stopped going to church, amd when I try to explain why, they say that they're different when they're really not.
There's a very logical filter at play here: if you didn't think seeking beef with Arabs and participating in a colonialist project in the 50s/60s/70s was a good idea, you would have stayed in the US, and otherwise, you would have moved to Israel. This made it so that Jews in the US lean liberal and Jews in Israel lean ethno-nationalistic, in very broad terms.
Plenty of Jews in the West are from ex-USSR though.
I notice similar things as well, in that my personal expirences with them, comapred to average US population, US Jews seem to be far more informed on whats happening and far more likely to have at least harsh critisizm for Isreal. Part of why I really hate people conflating the two in order to spread hate.
Not to rain on your experience, but aren't a lot of Zionists in the illegal land settlements also Americans, and aren't a lot of the Jewish people participating in "birthright trips" also American?
US Jewish populations are actually really polarized on this topic, they aren't a monolith. There is definitely more of an age/generational divide regarding Zionism in Jewish communities than a nationality split.
I am very much in contact with the younger, far more left leaning crowd, so my experience is definitely skewed against basically anything modern Israel has done.
I do know a couple loud mouthed older generational Jewish folk who would like nothing more than for Israel to be the dominant power on the planet, and will have no issue telling you that you deserve torture and torment for literally infinite time (hell) for even vocally supporting Palestinians.
A lot like being German in 1949.
Sounds like you're condoning this behaviour.
Edit: good old Lemmy, where saying it's bad to hate on people just because of where they're born will get you downvoted to oblivion. You all need to step back and re-examine your views.
It doesn’t say they’re excluding all Jewish people, it says they’re excluding Israelis. You know, people from the country where they all serve in the military, except the most extreme religious extremists (for now anyway), the country actively violating international law in the West Bank and actively committing genocide.
There are plenty of non-Israeli Jewish people. Non-Zionist Jews are lovely people and should not be excluded.
This is the same as refusing to do business with apartheid South Africans.
Reminds me of some of the tourism sanctions on Russians as well. I don't like when the net's cast too wide, I know for a fact there are Israeli and Russian peoples who would stop these conflicts if they could and it sucks they're caught up in this, but I can understand the premise of barring by nationality. I just also know in the case of Israel, it's likely going to be taken to far or used as a point to embolden bigots who may try to use this to cover their beliefs about all Jews and make them appear easier for normal folk to tolerate. Really a double edge sword because I do think Israel needs a dose of responsibility, hell if the world had the balls American could use one too.
Of course it hurts the average person similar to the way sanctions against a country hurt the average person. One of the goals is to get the average person upset against their government.
A tourism issue like that is a pretty small annoyance in the grand scheme of things, but it's one that sends a pretty clear message that's hard for the individual to ignore.
This is some random dude, not Benjamin Netanyahu. Would you support that hotel banning all Palestinians because they are governed by an internationally-recognized terrorist organisation?
When's the last time Palestinians got to vote for who they are governed by?
Not sure you’re seriously asking but the answer is 2006. Add to that the fact that the median age in Gaza is 18 years and it’s clear that Hamas doesn’t have a legitimate governance mandate. They’re a mob outfit.
Good point. We'd need a whole other thread to hash out the legitimacy of Hamas' rule. Palestinians right now are a bit like Italians circa 1942.
And Israel is Germany circa 1939.
Sounds like this is someone with significant ties to the IDF. Although since they force everyone except religious extremists to serve, maybe that doesn't mean much.
If they're able to conclusively prove that, then sure, I'm on board with the ban. I would question how some hotel clerk in Japan was able to make that determination, though. It could easily be a case of "most Israelis serve in the IDF and you are Israeli therefore GTFO"
Sounds like you didn’t comprehend their comment.
YES.
Denizens of an apartheid regime, beneficiaries of a genocide do not get to enjoy tourism abroad. Is that unequivocal enough for you?
Punishing unknown people for the actions of their government?
As a US citizen, this is concerning.
My government has done all kinds of shit I have no control over, and don't condone.
Should I be held responsible for any of it?
Yes, I agree, killing innocent people because of the country they are in is terrible.
So terrible that the act of limiting the leisure options of the people who support those actions becomes morally acceptable, because shaming bad behaviour is actually a good thing to do.
Maybe America would stop being such a shit show if other countries actually stoped cowtowing to American demands and forced is to behave properly.
Sure. But that's a different issue. That doesn't require punishing some random citizen; One who has nothing to do with, and no control over what the US, or Israel governments do.
You don't have a right to travel abroad. Am i being punished for not being allowed to fly to Russia, Iran or North Korea? I'm not Muslim nor do i work in ONG, so am i being punished for not being able to travel to Saudi Arabia? What about Cuba? South Africans had serious visa restrictions during Apartheid, which was absolutely justified when they were an openly racist regime.
I don’t want to be held responsible for the appalling actions of my government, but as a voter I understand why people in other countries would. I have more control over it than they do, so them influencing me influences my government.
Denial of hospitality is not the same as a punishment. Speak to US soldiers stationed on Okinawa and you’ll hear similar sentiments from the locals towards them
Saying “I don’t want to offer room and board to a IDF soldier who may have been in Gaza” isn’t a big leap for Japanese society, they’ve apologized for and reckoned with their imperialist past and brutal ethnic cleansing, and generally as a nation actively pushed for peace and cooperation globally. Israel hasn’t done the same, and doesn’t work towards the same goal.
Certainly something to think about isn't it?
I regret to inform you that according to Lemmy you are personally responsible for the actions of every other American, and are by extension a terrible human being who should never be allowed past the borders of your country.
We are all at least a bit responsible for what our governments do in our names.
Well the people who don't agree with their government and the consequences of its decisions should get out and vote instead of letting right wing extremists get their guy in power.
Yes, thank you for being forthright about your views, unlike most others here who are tiptoeing around it.
Correct. Citizens of a government that is conducting a genocide ahould not be welcome in other countries.
Nice awardspeechedit
You aren't being down voted for saying it's bad to hate on people because they're Jewish or Israeli.
You're being down voted for espousing a false dichotomy, on par with "if you aren't with us you're against us"
That's the boldest doublespeak I've seen in a long time. I'm not the one supporting a blanket ban of all citizens of an entire country. It doesn't get much more "with us or against us" than that.
You can't read. Those are facts and written in a passive voice. Condoning the behavior reads something like: "The state of Israel has sown seeds of ill will nurtured by lies and here comes harvest time" or "Yeah fuckers, get dunked on world stage" or something similar and in-between.
How on earth is that passive voice? Their whole reply is devoted to criticising Israel, and not a single word to the effect of "it isn't OK to treat people badly because of where they are from". This sounds an awful lot like victim-blaming to me.
Edit: let's try a little experiment. Imagine me replying this to an article about a Palestinian being banned from a hotel simply for being Palestinian.
Palestinians around the word are less safe because of Hamas when they were promised the opposite. Their faith has been used as a cover for terrorism and they put your holy symbol on a flag they go to war, and worse, under. It’s no wonder so many Muslims in the middle east are critical of Palestinians. It probably feels a lot like being a regular Christian watching Republicans commit violence with their religious iconography and warped interpretations used to create ‘justification’.
This is a really weird way of saying "it isn't OK to ban a random Israeli from your hotel just because they are Israeli".
Incredible bigotry and hypocrisy on display here. You know nothing about this "Alex" fellow. Maybe he's been out in the streets protesting against Likud and calling for an end to the war.
Found the person that wouldn't participate in sanctioning apartheid south Africa.