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Israel says ‘highly likely’ its troops killed Turkish-American activist
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2024
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The sad truth is, give us someone who does. Who stands a chance. Then and only then will that discussion matter. Till then, not making things abjectly worse is sadly the best option. And we can push to improve from there. As opposed to trying to push to improve from a worse position in 4 years time.
First they came for the Palestinians and I said nothing, because I didn't want to ruin anyone's electoral chances.
First of all its ghoulishly disingenuous for you to conflate providing arms. Which is wrong I'm not justifying that. To actually killing people. That's straight up empty virtue signaling and not solving or convincing anyone of anything.
I asked who stands a chance. And you quoted it without even answering it. Useless. Right now the only viable option other than R or D in the presidential campaign is a widespread general uprising. Which I'm all for. If you got one let's go kiddo. But I got news for you. If you don't. What you're doing is empty virtue signaling that only helps the worst people around. And makes enemies of possible allies. Which is how I know your words are empty.
The people who collect the most corporate PAC money, obviously. So these are the only people it is reasonable to support.
False. PAC money can't overcome first past the post and the Electoral college. Even if we gave a third party candidate 100% of the pack money. They wouldn't win. Because of how the system works.
Parties have changed in the past. It's not impossible. We used to have a Whig party, for example.
But there have always largely been two main parties. The system of the Electoral College and first pass the post have always seen to that. The names change. But the internals look a lot more I like them people would like to admit.
You do know that if you provide a weapon with the knowledge that the person will use it to kill someone, you can get convicted for being an accessory to that murder, which entails the same criminal punishment?
So for normal crime it is absolutely considered to be on the same level
Yes but accessory to murder is different. That's why it's called accessory to murder. IBM and Dow Chemical supplied Nazi Germany knowing full well exactly what Germany was going to use their products for. They weren't charged with murder. Unfortunately they weren't even charged with accessory to murder. They should have been charged with something.
They're actually are legitimate reasons to send arms to israel. The problem is that while those legitimate reasons do exist. The fact that the current leadership especially. But pretty much all leadership of Israel has been bigoted and genocidal it conflicts heavily. But again it isn't some black and white situation as people want to make it out to be. I wish it were.
They will not exist so long as you vote for "lesser evil" genociders. Why would there be? You still vote for them! They don't need to listen to you at all and will gladly continue the project that is in their overall material interest in supporting Israel. You show up in their databases as, "Likely Democratic voter" and so they send some volunteers to try to get you to vote and they ask you for money. That is how you are thought of, and I mean this literally. That is how they curate and use their information. The rest is PR for how to ensure you don't take these looney anti-genociders too seriously.
There is no "push from there" without leverage. If they don't do what you want, what are you going to do? With what power? If you mske a threat, why is it credible? We are kept docile and ineffective through electoral illogic that serves the interests of the existing political class and cannot imagine gaining or wielding power in any practical way.
I'll tell you same as I told them. Unless you have a populist General uprising in your pocket. Then your rhetoric is empty. I'm 100% ready for a popular general non-leninist uprising. Let's go. But I don't have time or bandwidth for empty holier than thou virtue signaling. I actually want things to not get worse and possibly even make them better. Not enable the worst people among us.
Due to the very real and observable ratchet effect, the outcome of your strategy is that things actually get worse… just slightly slower than they otherwise would. Voting for the “lesser of two evils” will never, ever make things better. You need to take a risk and vote for a non-evil to even have a shot at making things actually better.
I disagree. I'm not going to say the ratchet effect doesn't exist. But I'm going to say that it's not a major impactor. If you've been alive over the last near 50 years and I have. You will have noticed a lot of change that didn't come about due to the ratchet effect. And a lot of it dies back specifically to that fascist Reagan. His election and time in office absolutely put the Democratic Party in heavy disarray. To the point where honestly even today their still trying to figure out what works.
And something to remember ratchets can go both ways. I think it's been so long since people really remember being united voting for democrats. And especially with the Advent of social media and the internet it's become far more easier to divide the left than ever. And we already self-divided considerably before. But if we actually had some solidarity we could flick the switch and Ratchet back the other way.
How can you have been alive that long and not noticed the ratchet effect? It specifically increased with Reagan, who put in a bunch of neoliberal policies that Democrats still haven't rolled back all these years later.
And unfortunately the ratchet can't go the other way because it's not in the material interest of the higher up Democrats to help regular people. That media that divides people is done on purpose by the exact same interests that own our politicians.
So, the new deal etc didn't happen. Gotcha.
It can and does happen. But unfortunately it's very slow moving. Creeping over generations. Which makes it nearly impossible to see by many. Especially younger people who've only known the current situation. The last Peak being back in the silent generation's lifetime. It happens and we have made progress and will make progress. Especially if we can stop finding scapegoats to blame for why things won't work. And start working together again showing solidarity like they did back then
Being "ready" means nothing, it is just a thought in your head. Praxis requires that you act. You aren't ready for an uprising if you aren't actually organizing towards one yourself. And I have yet to meet a successful revolutionary organizer that tries to sheepdog for literally genocidal Democrats.
I haven't advocated for "doing nothing", I have advocated against supporting genocide from both a moralizing and electorally strategic angle. I choose these angles because it is the language most people will understand and because the propaganda that I oppose in the process teaches people to give up leverage and cheerlead, which is literally disempowering.
If people want recommendations on something positive to do, I would recommend joining the Uncommitted Movement if you prefer electoralism. If you are interested in politics that also extends beyond electoralism, I would be happy to provide advice on any local groups and reading materials.
Not here to shit on your opinions, but populist upswell is what gave us the 2016 results. It just happened to be right wing populism.
And if you mean a more spicy uprising, well that'll both make things worse and enable the worst amomg us.
Populist doesn't mean bad. But you are correct that it can go both ways. But that is also specifically why I specified non-leninist. Though maybe I should have also specified non-fascist as well. They're both two sides of the same coin.
But no. As you put it I was talking the "non spicy" kind generally.